38-55 reloading in a 'modern' Model 1894

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.22LR
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:26 am
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:43 am
Howdy, noob to the forums.

I'm a reloader and purchased my first lever action rifle, made in 1983, unfired. Commemorative.
19,999 of these Crazy Horses were made so really not much collector value and I bought it for a reasonable price.
I have a no virgins policy, all my boom sticks and pistols (dating back to 1883) get shot. :)

Question:
I am going to reload for it, both modern smokeless and black powder.
There is very little powder selections out there that have a good small size that meters well in my Hornady AP. AA5744 is what I use for my .45-70 Springfield Trapdoor (low pressure loads) and it is a "Borderline" good metering powder, meaning that I tend to get a grain or two variation when reloading with a powder drop. (Slight crunch)

I am skeptical of recipes out on the internets that isn't in "the books" or listed on a manufacturer's data load sheets. With that said, I am always entertaining other's recipes with caution.


I'd like to know what your thoughts are on a good small diameter, perhaps spherical or ball type powder you'd recommend for smokeless rounds for a 38-55? These will be range rounds, NOT Hunting rounds.

What I have on hand:
AA5744 (Expensive!)
BL(C)-2
AA 2200
Pyrodex RS Select (synthetic BP, but I do not have the compression die STEM in .38 here yet. It's on backorder so BP is out right now)

I am using brand new Starline brass, short (2.080) and Missouri Bullet Company 245 gr RNFP Hi-Tek Coated bullets. ( http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= ) along with a CCI Magnum Rifle Primer.

My rifle arrived Friday but my dies don't get here until Wed!

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20g
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:50 pm
Beautiful Chief Winchester.

I don't speak reloading. However, there are a few here that are fluent.
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.22LR
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:26 am
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:55 pm
Thanks Redryder!
I was amazed there wasn't a reloading forum here.
I guess we're truly a dying breed? :)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:41 pm
Look under the General tab for Ammunition. There is a reloading thread there.
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.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:09 pm
ER, one ...thread?

Okay! Looks like there are not many reloaders! :)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:18 am
Real good looking firearm...

...and to your question...yea, not many reloaders here at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:56 pm
One reloading thread is too many for me. However, I am fascinated with the vernacular of reloading. Reads very scientific to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:24 pm
My dies and brass showed up a day early.

This is my experience and mine alone. You're mileage may vary. Load at your own risk. :)

I went with my trusty AA 5744 smokeless powder to start. I Hate the cost of 5744 but I love the accuracy with 405gr 45-70 loads!

I Started with Lyman's suggestion (validated by other load data) with min load of 20 gr. Max load was 23 gr but I stopped at 22 gr.

Bullet:
Missouri
#1 Ballard - Hi-Tek
.379 Diameter
245 Grain RNFP
Brinell 18
For The High Plains
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating

Brass:
38-55 Starline "short" (2.080)
Primer:
CCI Lg Mag Primer

OAL: 2.535-2.40

Took about 1 hr min to prep and set up the new RCBS 38-55 dies.

Checked the first 6 rounds for loading ability and cycling action (facing the Game Preserve just in case a primer went off and shot something, hmmm, like an elk or deer.)

Observations:

Walls are extremely thin. One must not use the same primed brass starter more than 3 times over when doing a 'final powder measure' on the AP press as the case edge gets 'loose'. I use a small glass dish to cycle the Powder drop but do one final check with the casing....cannot do it more than three cycles. This brass is essentially "REALLY long .357 magnum straight wall" :)

Sexy looking round next to the .45-70 :) Sort of a sister on a diet! It's very similar to .30-30 but with no neck down, and a bullet weight much heavier, so much that when it arrives at the intended destination it will say "Hello, I'm here a little slower the 30-30, but I'm going to knock you on your butt".

Coated bullets seat nicely although there is a slight case bulging due to .379 bullet. I think .378 cast is going to be perfect when I get to black powder for this caliber.

Racked and shacked smoothly on the Winchester action although I will have to grow my right thumb nail about 1/8 of an inch longer when reloading. :)

Will be Chrono'd with AA5744, then AA2200, and I'll ladder test a few Pyrodex RS Select on Friday. Report to follow.

Pic 1:
Bullet left, first dummy load, bullet seated too deep, too much crimp.
Bullet right, 2nd attempt, seated good, and a kiss crimp.(My definition of a Kiss Crimp is "Bullet doesn't move when dropped from 2 feet or push with 25 lbs")

Pic 2:
Comparison to .50 caliber and .45-70 with 500 gr bullet.

Pic 3:
First 6 (capacity of mag) in lowest charge.

Pic 4: 21 gr and 22 gr. I made more of the 22 gr based on my gut feeling and reading other's recipes and range reports (the few and far between they are for this old caliber)

Pic 5: 38/55 245 gr bullet next to a 500 gr 45/70 bullet.

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20g
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:30 pm
You did good with the narrative supported by actual prop pics.

All the close-tolerance loading data is far above my weapons knowledge curve, but enjoyed the read.
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.22LR
Posts: 18
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:39 pm
Why thank you!
I expect a raise in the next performance management review. :D

One more pic, just for size comparison.
A shot of a .380 - 95 grain bullet, a 158 gr SWC (.38 spl or .357 mag) bullet , and the new "357 on steroids" 38-55- 245 gr bullet.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:38 am
Nice photo work. The S&W special has the aspects of a semi-wad cutter on steroids.

I'm a old-school former deputy Sheriff that carried a Smith .38 special BG (Before Glock) accommodating semi-wad cutters.
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.22LR
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:35 am
Thank you for your sheriff service!

My wheel gun is the most accurate of all my handguns on the range. Absolutely love it but too big for conceal/carry so I C&C a Colt Commander.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:35 am
Nice hip-hugger. Sho nuff to much to conceal.
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.22LR
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:19 pm
An obligatory range follow up is in order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfWtc-CJlU

Short story if you don't want to read further.
The New Winchester 94 performed flawlessly and the BP loads were the most accurate and consistent on the Chrono.
/end story.

And now for the REST of the story (RIP Paul Harvey)

I went through 3 powder types with 3 load weights and validated velocities with these new 38/55 and my other 45/70 loads.
The Caldwell Precision El Cheapo $56 Chrono was working fine, recording velocity on the little reader window from 15 feet away but my tablet was not recording through their app.
Half way through the shooting session I tried my Samsung smart phone and viola! It needs internet connection to work. DOH! It also validated all 3 45/70 loads in 3 different bullet wts and powder types. JUST where I expected the velocities to be! This was the best $56 spent for 'piece of mind' for my old Springfield Trapdoor.

All shots were low (expected) and left of target (adjusted front sight when I returned home) I was looking for velocities and groups only.

The 38/55 powders/Grs-Bolded was best consistent velocity and MOA
AA5744 20/21/22.5 gr -Avg Velocity 1456 pfs for best load
AA2200 24/25 gr -Avg Velocity 1560 fps for best load. NOTE: Velocities all over the place from 1414 to 1585. Probably uneven pressure when cooking off?
Pyrodex RS Select -45 by volume (31 gr) -Avg Velocity 1267 fps. This was another that had velocities ranges from 1194 to 1275 but had the tightest group (See picture below)

Pic 1: 25 yd target and Chrono, looking down range. The angle here looks like I'm going to shoot the Chrono! :)
Pic 2: Black powder grouping (best) with lowest average velocity at 25 yards.
Pic 3: wads (white) used with BP loads. I used a drop tube to fit as much powder as the casing could handle without over compressing, which is 45 by volume (31 grs) Then topped it with a wad.
Pic 4: 40 more ready for the range today! Please note the primer colors, I had a good primer strike but failure to fire on a Lg Rifle Federal so this first batch I switched to Magnum Lg Rifle CCI.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:09 am
Excellent photography sportsdad. You made maximum effort with the detailed loading narrative. I'm learning a second language.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:46 pm
Looking good!!!! I've never used Pyrodex ! I've used 3fff in my 38-55 with good out come ! just dirty.

Ol Deuce
Do The Best With What You Have!!!!

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