Coyote Ammuntion

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.22LR
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 am
Location: Laveen AZ
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:40 pm
Hello all,

I have a question about Coyote food. Not real food but the lead kind. ;) ;) ;)

I am considering buying or having built a Pre '64 Model 70 for this purpose. It MUST be a Pre '64 Model 70 (I know that some may think I am some kind of nut and maybe I am but that is what I want).

I am thinking of or rather curious about these choices. .257 Roberts, 220 Swift, .250-3000 Savage, .22-250 and maybe a few others.

Does anyone (I am sure many do) have a good idea which is the best or better choice for "feeding" Coyotes. :D :D :D :D

Walter in Arizona
NRA Life Benefactor Member, Ham Radio (K7CCA)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:52 pm
Only caliber I'm familiar with in your limited choices is the .22-250...which I borrowed from a friend for an impromptu deer hunt.

Worked well on a deer...should drop a yote no problem !

.22LR
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 am
Location: Laveen AZ
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:32 am
Hello once again,

I must say that I am surprised that there have NOT been many replies to this thread. Maybe there are not that many out there that hunt Coyotes?? :o :o :o :o :o

I suppose I could just use my .30-06 or .264 Win Mag or .300 Win Mag or even my .458 Win Mag OR my M1 Garand. Just kidding.... BUT, I really would like to know the opinion of many out there. :) :) :)
NRA Life Benefactor Member, Ham Radio (K7CCA)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:04 pm
I personally use an AR15 when I hunt yotes in NY state....


BTW...Wouldn't mind seeing a picture of that M1 Garand...

Own one myself...

.22LR
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:05 am
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:49 am
Have shot a few coyotes but usually when deer hunting. Any of the rounds you mentioned will work well but in a pre 64 action question would be feeding from the magazine. The shorter rounds in the old rifles used blocks in the mag to solve that, and it can be done, but can your gunsmith do it. Other issue is availability of ammo. The 220, 250 and 257 are not easy rounds to find, and even if you reload brass may be an issue. In a full size (06 length) case one option is 25/06, easy to find, components readily available and in a good rifle plenty of accuracy and range.

.22LR
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 am
Location: Laveen AZ
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:58 pm
Rich/WIS,

Thank you very much for your reply. I had not even considered the availability of brass/ammo. I do reload and have been since before I was 18 (I think it was - I am 72 now, so that is a L-O-N-G time ago). But, I will take you input into consideration. Thanks again. :D :D :D

Walter
NRA Life Benefactor Member, Ham Radio (K7CCA)

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:24 am
As a fish & wildlife professional for many years and a life long farmer I am more impressed with coyotes than your topic indicates. But I have used and owned almost every caliber you mention. 22.250 is an excellent choice. Recently I have purchased four .243s. That is also a good round. My favorite was always .222 Remington but that now is a lost cause due to availability. Jack O'Connor thought that the .222 Remington was the best coyote round if you wanted intact hides. The large northeastern coyote pelts are often exceptional. In Arizona and New Mexico I thought the ones I photographed were pretty small and sparsely coated. The .220 Swift is an excellent long range rifle and I have seen it used more effectively than any other you mention but it is rougher on pelts and becoming scarse, even to a point of being a poor choice for reloading. An adult male here will run about 62 pounds from our actual weights on shot coyotes.

I myself am not even a little bit impressed with .223s as I used them when I was drafted during the Vietnam War. The .222 Remington used to be a way better choice and now the .223 is better due to cost, availability, brass details. I stopped reloading myself and will never resume.

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:36 am
I forgot to mention I would way rather have a .257 Roberts over the 25-06! I have owned both of them and think the 25-06 is fine for a somewhat longer shot but too many downsides starting with poor availability.

.410
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:52 am
Any caliber will do if you are on a mission to kill coyotes. If you want to get their hides too, that changes things. Some of the large caliber rifles you mentioned might turn a coyote to DUST.

You can also consider a 30-30 Winchester unless you are planning on hunting them long distance. There are more 30-30's available than you can count. Ammo is plentiful and cheap too. Model 70's are NOT cheap. I don't know if you have a big budget and want to have some fun or if you are out to destroy coyotes. Possibly a little of both?

.22LR
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 am
Location: Laveen AZ
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:34 am
miket156,

Thanks you for your reply.

My history hunting coyotes began back in about 1963. At the time I only had my .30-06. I only hunted a very few times before the military put a stop to it. I joined the US Air Force to avoid being drafted. :D :D :D

Fast forward to now and I am returning to an interest in coyote hunting. Back then, here in Arizona, there was not any concern for the pelts. We'd just leave the carcasses where we shot them. I have not investigated the current practice yet. I am just focusng on a "more specific" rifle for coyotes at this time.

Actually since I have been thinking and evaluation the subject of rifles I have pretty much settled on a .243 Winchester. :D

Time is now my current enemy BUT, I will get there. I plan to check out several predator hunting groups here in the Phoenix area soon to inquire about the current practices. :idea:
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.410
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:38 am
I hope to turn some Coyotes to dust this year, I am not interested in the pelts. The Coyotes I have seen are critters I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They are starting to travel in packs here in PA and if I could destroy the Alpha Male in a pack, that would be devastating to the pack. Coyotes kill deer fawns and bear cubs in the spring, and when there are enough of them, they attack Elk calves. My mission is to protect game animals from Coyotes.
Note: If you are going to buy a genuine Pre 64 Model 70 I hope you have a large wad of CA$H!


Cheers!


Mike T.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:32 pm
Which county in PA do you hunt Mike T. ?

.410
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:50 pm
Centre and Clearfield Counties, mostly Clearfield. There is some private farm land I have scouted that is adjacent to old coal company land that has a fair share of game. More bears than deer these days. I do believe you told me what part of the state you hang your hat, but I can't recall. Where do you hunt?

Mike T.

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:27 am
To Win 70 Fan: I own a dozen Model 70's. Four of them are .243s. It is one of the best coyote rounds with lots of other uses. It is also one of the nicest for light recoil but capable of killing something that you want to. Nice flat trajectory and importantly very available.

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:41 am
miket156 wrote:I hope to turn some Coyotes to dust this year, I am not interested in the pelts. The Coyotes I have seen are critters I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They are starting to travel in packs here in PA and if I could destroy the Alpha Male in a pack, that would be devastating to the pack. Coyotes kill deer fawns and bear cubs in the spring, and when there are enough of them, they attack Elk calves. My mission is to protect game animals from Coyotes.
Note: If you are going to buy a genuine Pre 64 Model 70 I hope you have a large wad of CA$H!


Cheers!


Mike T.



Coyotes in the country further north have excellent pelts. Bear kill many more newborn deer than do coyotes. If there are an awful lot of coyotes they do impact other wildlife populations more to be sure. Killing an AlPHA Male pretty much gets him replaced and the pack learns to be just that much more secretive.

I have seen and shot many model 70 Winchesters. I fail to see all the hype about Pre 64 Model 70s. My friend Jack O'Connor would be pretty impressed how well Model 70s have held up in terms of quality in manufacturing compared to most other brands. Short of Dakota or full custom rifles some of the newer limited edition Model 70s have been nothing short of a modern miracle in terms of good quality. One odd fact though is that MANY dealers of substantial size report to me that used good quality rifles are not being traded in very frequently now. Do you believe that?

I know I sold a lightweight model 70 Winchester 1985 30-06 for about $500 with a good Alaska Guide Scope that I should not have sold but needed the cash that day for a new Super Grade .243 I was buying.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:20 am
miket156 wrote:Centre and Clearfield Counties, mostly Clearfield. There is some private farm land I have scouted that is adjacent to old coal company land that has a fair share of game. More bears than deer these days. I do believe you told me what part of the state you hang your hat, but I can't recall. Where do you hunt? Mike T.


Mostly Monroe and Carbon counties...depending on which friend(s) I'm hunting with...usually on private property which butts up to State Game Lands.

.410
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:28 am
Location: San Diego Area
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:10 pm
I live in a seaside residential neighborhood with coyotes abounding nearby. In fact they're abundant on a neighbor's large spread. I personally enjoy their singing and often excited barking as they corner a rabbit or like quarry in the night. The neighbor doesn't appear to mind them at all. Indeed, despite the fact that they do a lot of shooting on their land, neither they nor coyotes seem affected by one another. One of the neighbors "lightweight' weapons" is the "Triple Seven". You can read about it and the neighbors at the Website below.

It's really great to have good neighbors!

iskra


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:00 pm
When I last vacationed in Acadia National Park in Maine I had two coyotes run by when I was out taking photos and videos at Sunset. About half an hour later the same two streaked by going the other way.
Coyotes are certainly getting more numerous.

.410
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:46 pm
DaveyJ wrote:
miket156 wrote:
Coyotes in the country further north have excellent pelts. Bear kill many more newborn deer than do coyotes. If there are an awful lot of coyotes they do impact other wildlife populations more to be sure. Killing an AlPHA Male pretty much gets him replaced and the pack learns to be just that much more secretive.

I have seen and shot many model 70 Winchesters. I fail to see all the hype about Pre 64 Model 70s. My friend Jack O'Connor would be pretty impressed how well Model 70s have held up in terms of quality in manufacturing compared to most other brands. Short of Dakota or full custom rifles some of the newer limited edition Model 70s have been nothing short of a modern miracle in terms of good quality. One odd fact though is that MANY dealers of substantial size report to me that used good quality rifles are not being traded in very frequently now. Do you believe that?

I know I sold a lightweight model 70 Winchester 1985 30-06 for about $500 with a good Alaska Guide Scope that I should not have sold but needed the cash that day for a new Super Grade .243 I was buying.


I would not be surprised that black bears account for more fawn kills than coyotes here in central PA. From what I've seen, there are more bears around than coyotes. There is a Coyote hunt every year here in Central PA and I did attend one a few years back with a hunter friend of mine that is a member of the club that sponsors it. Its a great time.

I can't speak to the quality of Pre 64 Model 70's compared to newer ones that were still made at the New Haven Plant. I know that the Pre 64 Winchester Model 94's were one of the best built lever rifles in its class at that time. When Winchester made changes to the Model 94 to cut costs, Winchester owners were not happy campers.

My Model 70 Classic was made in 2001 at the New Haven plant, it has a Pre 64 action. I absolutely love that rifle. Well built and very accurate. I had seen some Model 70 Supergrade rifles for sale, but not in a caliber I would want to buy. I already have a 300 WSM, and also bought a Remington 798 that was made in Serbia by Zastava. It's a 300 WM, has a Mauser K98 action. and is one sweet rifle. So if I were to buy another Model 70 in a Supergrade, I would probably buy a 308.

I am not surprised that gun owners are not trading in their older rifles. Even older Remington Model 700's were going for some high prices at estate auctions a couple years ago.

Cheers!


Mike T.
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20g
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Location: Central Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:32 pm
Back in my aviation days. When coming onto the final approach at any of our rural airports, it was wise to make a noisy low fly over to scare the Coyotes off the runway where they were laying in small groups.
GOA Life Member
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.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:11 pm
I was impressed with Red Ryder's post! I am wondering what years those were with coyote popultations that high? Small Plane Pilots get to see things that many do not. Despite the fact that we are doing a lot of aerial photography in quite a few areas.....we are still not getting aerial images of coyotes. However thirthy years ago we were getting spectacular scenes of wolf packs in the Isle Royale area.

.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:22 pm
I should mention that the Isle Royale wolf populations today have dropped so low that it is alarming almost everyone. These Timber Wolves are quite a creature and it is fact that all domestic dogs come from this wolf......but coyotes are on the increase but wolves are a wilderness animal and do not get along well around many humans. Everyplace I know coyotes are on the increase. I also would note that there is NO ANIMAL I would be more motivated to hunt than wild pigs. They are increasing to a degree that is amazing and can have up to 9 liters a year. My Model 70s would get used to hunt them for sure. Farmers are having some very bad crop damage from these wild pigs. When the wild pigs are full grown they look pretty scary!
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:51 pm
DaveyJ, I have not flown since 2002. The Coyote population was not dense as I recall. They were attracted to the remote airports/airfields at night to cool down during the hot muggy Louisiana nights. They would began to gather in small packs at dusk and remain until near dawn. During the years from 1979 through 2002 I made night body runs from Houston and many night search and rescue sorties with the Civil Air Patrol. Most S&R sorties were at or near small rural airfields. These airfields we usually surrounded on all sides by forestry.
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.270 WIN
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:24 am
My pilot days are over. I no longer have govt planes to fly and I sold the plane I did have. Currently we do our aerial photography by unmanned quadcopters which are way better at accomplishing a specific mission than fixed wing aircraft of helicopters were in my experience. Quadcopter aerial Photography however is a pretty technical pursuit and the possibility of wrecking fairly expensive equipment is always there. Sometimes the coyotes here and other places I travel seem more robust than others but a lot of that is weather. Right now they are laying low and we might get frost tonight! Even in places we are photographing with sea planes like Dehav. Otters the quadcopters outperform the more expensive planes and helicopters are even more expensive. So in that sense it is a whole new world.

I am not even surprised we are not seeing coyotes from the air. They are very much survivors and it demonstrates how they can live around people and be increasing in numbers. I do have far greater "tolerance" for them. Wild hogs though is a "get your gun" situation if I have ever seen it. The habitat and crop damage is substantial and they reduce other populations like deer herds. My first choice in firearms for them is .243, same a coyotes. My son has shot some big coyotes with the S&W M22 rimfire. That would NOT work on wild hogs.

.410
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:39 am
Coyotes attack and kill fawns, and so do bears. We don't have quite the wild hog population of Hogs n Central PA than we have of varmits, and predators. Personally, I have no use for Coyotes. I am probably going to get a Varmit Tag to accompany my Hunting license this year, depending on how much time I am going to be able to spend in the field this year.
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