Coyote Ammuntion

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.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:27 am
No question Coyotes will attack and kill fawns if they are able to do so. The current wildlife biologists claim that bears kill more fawns than do coyotes. Seems pretty unlikely as there are MORE coyotes. I am no longer a working wildlife biologist. When I was one and particularly on dead deer surveys two things accounted for the most ADULT or large fawn deaths.....domestic dogs and vehicles on the road. Followed distantly by hunters. Coyotes are now taking a toll that hey did not before due to huge population increase. So y all means if you or MikeT or any other hunter has the inclination to hunt them they should not be discouraged. I unfortunately predict that many areas we now do not have wild hogs will see them become a great problem in the future. They are expanding from south to north at a rapid rate. partly due to climate change, and a lot of this is when a population of any creature gets numbers great enough to occupy a habitat they will then expand until disease, habitat change, harvest or some other factor begins to slow them down. We probably did not need coyotes or wild hogs in many areas. I believe though deer and elk, etc., are preferred species form most of us on Winchester Owners Forum!

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:40 am
To Miket1983 I am surprised you need a Varmit Tag in addition to a hunting license in Pa! Almost always I think Pa is run far better than NYS DC does here! Every sportsman I talk to says the same thing! However walk into a NYS DEC office and you would think you have asked to talk to God himself. The resource management professionals live in a bubble of self importance. Just came away from four sportsman's meeting in NY. That was the take of every single sportsman in those meetings. Some said, nice people, stinking awful policy. Also this state is going to get sued so hard for their anti-hydrofracking stance it will be unreal. Joe Martens of DEC has publicly stated that it will be almost impossible to write this ban so it will not become a suit target. For years Pa has had a whole different policy. So has most of the USA.

But a varmit tag should not be needed. If you are a farmer though I am certain such a tag is unneeded!

Having been a water quality scientist most of my life some of these trends are unbelievable. Science should dictate management practices. Varmits should be eliminated and we use to pay BOUNTIES to accomplish that until we found out that they were expensive and stimulated cheating, and plain weren't very effective. But when someone does it for sport or whatever reason for free.....it should not be discouraged!
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:55 am
You and I realize this Country is expanding exponentially. Wild life is also expanding. Expansion demands room. Therefore, wild life is forced, by man, to infringe on man's expansion for food, shelter and breeding. Man has little concern for fauna or flora when satisfying his need for more expansion.
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.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:40 pm
Got that right Red Ryder! Although some populations of creatures requiring colder water or more space are dwindling. Red Ryder was always a hero of mine when I was growing up. But I lives on a two square mile farm and we had no TV, no comic books and listened to only a few radio shores when there were not farm chores to do. I did see wildlife then that I do not today unless I travel far more ground!

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:10 pm
Regarding your posts about the bear vs coyote/ fawn issue. I recently was at a program where a biologist for California Department of Fish and Wildlife did a study in Northern California which found 61% of fawn mortality was bear caused. This is, however,very young fawns. The other problem bears cause is they will take a lion kill which then causes the lion to kill again. Instead of 1 deer a week the lion will have to kill 2 . We have a rather large population of lions and bears on our property which is not really so good and we have to have a real good reason to kill a lion ie;brown stain in shorts.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:07 pm
DaveyJ, I still have my 1942 original Red Ryder BB gun. Had a link here to my website that listed all my collection of firearms, air guns, knives, etc.

There's a human interest story with the RR.

If there's interest I can upload the listing to the Internet again.
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.410
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:25 pm
bob lewis wrote:Regarding your posts about the bear vs coyote/ fawn issue. I recently was at a program where a biologist for California Department of Fish and Wildlife did a study in Northern California which found 61% of fawn mortality was bear caused. This is, however,very young fawns. The other problem bears cause is they will take a lion kill which then causes the lion to kill again. Instead of 1 deer a week the lion will have to kill 2 . We have a rather large population of lions and bears on our property which is not really so good and we have to have a real good reason to kill a lion ie;brown stain in shorts.


I'd guess that a fawn is easy prey for a bear. Coyotes would probably have to travel in packs to get a fawn away from its mother. A Bear could just as easily attack the mother as the fawn.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:16 am
I have been told it is strictly related to the bear's sense of smell being tuned in better to finding young fawns. I have been told by the very few biologists who are real field men that few adult deer get killed by either bear or coyotes as the deer at that age are just too fast. Having watched quite a few pursuits myself I think this is the case. Despite the fact that we have Black bear at this tree farm every month....there are just a lot more coyotes. I do think our deer herd is downsizing now.....Could be just more people (and the active hunters in any area are the MINORITY of human residents....At any rate I am certain I do not have as much a handle on wildlife populations on our two farms and surrounding areas as I would like to have. One of our farms is in the Adirondacks, and one in the Southern Tier. The coyote population in the Adirondack tree farm is MUCH larger than the Home Farm in the Southern Tier!

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:39 am
To Red Ryder: The Red Ryder BB Gun is the longest continuing licensing arrangement in the world! I never owned one. I did repeatedly ask for one but at our farm such purchases were not allowed. Too bad as they are worth a LOT (the antique ones). I believe I saw a NEW one at the Farm tractor Supply Store. I will look on my next trip to Plattsburgh NY. If they still have them I am going to buy one! THANKS to Red Ryder for this piece of history! I still have 2 Nichols Stallion .45 cap guns which sold for 3.95 in 1957 and today a mint one in the box will bring over $1,000!!! Red Ryder's original BB gun would EBay auction for a bundle. Also I'd better admit that I never actually was given any of these Nichol's cap guns I got them in trade for repair work, etc. with school mates.

Today I find it easier to just go out and buy a NEW Model 70 if I want one than it ever was to get one as a youth. However those still were the good old days......when there were a lot more wild places. In fact when I met Jack O'Connor in 1969 I felt he was one of the men who had actually seen wildlife that few will ever get to see. Now I can actually save up and buy a new Model 70, even a Jack O'Connor .270. But sadly my ability to get around is not as great as the old days. Yet now I can travel and visit some great places. Most of those kind of places though my "shooting" has to be with a camera though as some of these places hunting is prohibited or too expensive for me!

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:41 am
I am going to look up Red Ryder's list of gear.....I am fond of my gear but his is probably legend. I have more guns than I can ever use and sometimes I wonder what will become of them when I give them away or they are willed past tense....
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:55 am
The Guns & Blades gallery listing is ongoing as I snap pics and post.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/comrads/index3.htm

Nichols cap guns site:

http://www.nicholscapguns.com/guns.htm
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.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:09 pm
We have been talking some of doing a documentary movie on the Nichol's Cap Gun history based partly on the Short History of Nichol's Cap Guns and my communication with them over the years. Mike Talley's site is the biggest cap gun site. My Nichols Stallion .45s are the Mark IIs. I have 3 nearly mint ones and two of them are in Circle KB real 45 long Colt gun leather. My Winchester 9422 is .22 LR and was built in the custom shop. Nice site and photos! Long ago we did a western slide sound show "The Sheriff" for the Land of Make Believe which was the forerunner of Disney Land. The Stallion .45s were used in that program and our Appaloosa horse Comanche. Since Land of Make Believe was a children's theme park my son was the "Sheriff".
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:29 pm
One more off topic post. Then we can drift back to topic.

A documentary would be well received by we early cap pistol Cowboys.

Talley and I were good friends. We were pilots and fond of Cowboy make believe and anything man made that was capable of flight. I made several visits to his place while I was in the Coast Guard and when I was transporting bodies in a Saratoga from Hoppy to central Louisiana.
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.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:48 pm
Yes the problem is that many of the old Nichols era cowboys are not youngsters! I no sooner got started on an idea of a documentary and ran into a severe glitch on my outgoing emails. I understand that the Mike Talley cap gun site guy had the same problem recently. Also it would be almost required to use mostly older photos for such a documentary together with some new video interviews. I see your Stallion .45 is a Mark I, at least the listed one on your excellent guns and blades site. Ruth Talley sent me a couple of letters that would probably be used as it does set the tone for "Those were the good old days". Of course light planes were practically synonymous with the Nichols Cap Gun Factory and Sales "Team". The effort to develop such a documentary would be substantial. I am trying to get my grandson Christjen Johnson who has posted quite a few documentaries under his Black Sky Entertainment films under UTube...such as Building A Palace of Ice, Inspire Fireworks, etc. and one called Junior Mission does give some idea how "cowboy and indian" Nichols Cap Gun scenes might be interspliced with featured old photos some of which would be requested by Mike Talley or already on his site if that would work.....it does require someone like Christjen do a lot of editing and it would require major input from Mike Talley grandson of the Nichols factory "Head Wrangler"

Yes quite a ways of the Coyote hunting topic. But there always has to have been a lure that got us headed on our respective paths....and in some cases that was the US Army Draft!!

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:07 pm
Jim Turner who has a cap Gun service center and I have talked extensively about such Nichols Cap Gun documentary and I do know there would be some references to other brands for comparison and maybe even a brief reference to Daisy.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:23 pm
To Red Ryder: I just goggled the Red Ryder BB gun at my local Tractor Store where I have a farm business account. They have the Red Ryder BB gun in stock for $29.99 and I am going to buy one of those on my next trip to Plattsburgh, NY. I will take some photos of that new gun and state that it is amazing that they are STILL available! I admit I have often wondered if Winchester could make some safe toy gun but as Ruth Talley has written to me....it is possible those days are completely over. Although in some senses it might not be good to mix toys with the real deal.

I still appreciate it GREATLY that Winchester Model 70s are not covered with huge warning signs. And I think that is partly due to the great company and MANY responsible customers that have done everything humanly possible to see that these wonderful rifles are used responsibly! I do think though that if a young boy grows up being very happy with a certain BB gun....then he thinks of guns in a happy way as an older guy. That is how it has been for me, and I am sure for our Red Ryder!! When I saw that BB gun in The Tractor Supply a year ago I had to pinch myself to see if I was just day dreaming that such a BB gun was still being made and selling for such a decent price. Soon I will own one. Although it will never be as treasured an BB Gun as one you owned as a boy!

My grandsons are in their twenties. A Model 70 is a way better gun for them to use. They do shoot ours and think they are very well made and that it is vital to our country to be able to own such great rifles.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:08 pm
The toy manufactures are pressured by production cost a liability. They must cut the costs somewhere. This means plastic and unnecessary warnings all over every toy made. Same with the firearms makers and vendors. Winchester ruined some of their recent models with the recessed receiver safety. They did change to a upper tang safety. Which is a tad more acceptable. This is silly. The hammer notch safety was/is as safe as the other methods IMHO.

Most schools are discouraging kids to play with toy guns. Therefore, fewer are enjoying the times I enjoyed with toy guns.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:37 am
To Red Ryder: Just talked directly to Daisy in Rodgers, Arkansas. Then we placed an order for 4 Red Ryder 75th Anniversary BB Guns from Amazon.com. This is a real success story for Daisy and your comments helped us decide what we wanted to do. This is at least the longest continually licensed arrangement in USA history if not the entire world. The new rifles have done very well in accuracy and quality control reviews. It is absolutely amazing they still are available. The 75th Anniv. Red Ryder is assembeld in the USA and built from USA and China manufactured parts and has only the trigger and trigger guard made of high impact polymer plastic.

A little ways of the coyote topic.....I did start a Toy Winchester post on the Forum. BB Guns are still alive and well. Toy guns though are on a distinct downturn despite incredibly high EBAy prices for them as nostalgia items.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:07 am
A little ways OFF the coyote topic

.22LR
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:29 am
All,

It has been a while since I posted. I wanted you all to know that I settled on a .243 Winchester Cartridge.
I now have a Model 70 Pre '64 (of course) in .243 Winchester and it is a heavy barrel one. No real reason for the choice of barrel, it is what was available and what I wanted to get.

As of today I have NOT had a chance to shoot it but that will happen soon. I am in the process of loading up some ammo for it.

Anyway, I wish to thank all that have contributed to this thread.

Oh, I also now have a .22 Hornet Winchester Model 70 Pre '64 (again - of course).
Like the song goes; "rolling, rolling, rolling - rawhide"... only for me is "loading, loading, loading - yeehaa!"
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:32 am
Hello Win 70. Welcome back and congrats on your Model 70.
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