Coyote Ammuntion

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.410
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:38 am
I hope to turn some Coyotes to dust this year, I am not interested in the pelts. The Coyotes I have seen are critters I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They are starting to travel in packs here in PA and if I could destroy the Alpha Male in a pack, that would be devastating to the pack. Coyotes kill deer fawns and bear cubs in the spring, and when there are enough of them, they attack Elk calves. My mission is to protect game animals from Coyotes.
Note: If you are going to buy a genuine Pre 64 Model 70 I hope you have a large wad of CA$H!


Cheers!


Mike T.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:32 pm
Which county in PA do you hunt Mike T. ?

.410
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:50 pm
Centre and Clearfield Counties, mostly Clearfield. There is some private farm land I have scouted that is adjacent to old coal company land that has a fair share of game. More bears than deer these days. I do believe you told me what part of the state you hang your hat, but I can't recall. Where do you hunt?

Mike T.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:27 am
To Win 70 Fan: I own a dozen Model 70's. Four of them are .243s. It is one of the best coyote rounds with lots of other uses. It is also one of the nicest for light recoil but capable of killing something that you want to. Nice flat trajectory and importantly very available.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:41 am
miket156 wrote:I hope to turn some Coyotes to dust this year, I am not interested in the pelts. The Coyotes I have seen are critters I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They are starting to travel in packs here in PA and if I could destroy the Alpha Male in a pack, that would be devastating to the pack. Coyotes kill deer fawns and bear cubs in the spring, and when there are enough of them, they attack Elk calves. My mission is to protect game animals from Coyotes.
Note: If you are going to buy a genuine Pre 64 Model 70 I hope you have a large wad of CA$H!


Cheers!


Mike T.



Coyotes in the country further north have excellent pelts. Bear kill many more newborn deer than do coyotes. If there are an awful lot of coyotes they do impact other wildlife populations more to be sure. Killing an AlPHA Male pretty much gets him replaced and the pack learns to be just that much more secretive.

I have seen and shot many model 70 Winchesters. I fail to see all the hype about Pre 64 Model 70s. My friend Jack O'Connor would be pretty impressed how well Model 70s have held up in terms of quality in manufacturing compared to most other brands. Short of Dakota or full custom rifles some of the newer limited edition Model 70s have been nothing short of a modern miracle in terms of good quality. One odd fact though is that MANY dealers of substantial size report to me that used good quality rifles are not being traded in very frequently now. Do you believe that?

I know I sold a lightweight model 70 Winchester 1985 30-06 for about $500 with a good Alaska Guide Scope that I should not have sold but needed the cash that day for a new Super Grade .243 I was buying.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:20 am
miket156 wrote:Centre and Clearfield Counties, mostly Clearfield. There is some private farm land I have scouted that is adjacent to old coal company land that has a fair share of game. More bears than deer these days. I do believe you told me what part of the state you hang your hat, but I can't recall. Where do you hunt? Mike T.


Mostly Monroe and Carbon counties...depending on which friend(s) I'm hunting with...usually on private property which butts up to State Game Lands.

.410
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:10 pm
I live in a seaside residential neighborhood with coyotes abounding nearby. In fact they're abundant on a neighbor's large spread. I personally enjoy their singing and often excited barking as they corner a rabbit or like quarry in the night. The neighbor doesn't appear to mind them at all. Indeed, despite the fact that they do a lot of shooting on their land, neither they nor coyotes seem affected by one another. One of the neighbors "lightweight' weapons" is the "Triple Seven". You can read about it and the neighbors at the Website below.

It's really great to have good neighbors!

iskra


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777

.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:00 pm
When I last vacationed in Acadia National Park in Maine I had two coyotes run by when I was out taking photos and videos at Sunset. About half an hour later the same two streaked by going the other way.
Coyotes are certainly getting more numerous.

.410
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Location: Central PA, USA
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:46 pm
DaveyJ wrote:
miket156 wrote:
Coyotes in the country further north have excellent pelts. Bear kill many more newborn deer than do coyotes. If there are an awful lot of coyotes they do impact other wildlife populations more to be sure. Killing an AlPHA Male pretty much gets him replaced and the pack learns to be just that much more secretive.

I have seen and shot many model 70 Winchesters. I fail to see all the hype about Pre 64 Model 70s. My friend Jack O'Connor would be pretty impressed how well Model 70s have held up in terms of quality in manufacturing compared to most other brands. Short of Dakota or full custom rifles some of the newer limited edition Model 70s have been nothing short of a modern miracle in terms of good quality. One odd fact though is that MANY dealers of substantial size report to me that used good quality rifles are not being traded in very frequently now. Do you believe that?

I know I sold a lightweight model 70 Winchester 1985 30-06 for about $500 with a good Alaska Guide Scope that I should not have sold but needed the cash that day for a new Super Grade .243 I was buying.


I would not be surprised that black bears account for more fawn kills than coyotes here in central PA. From what I've seen, there are more bears around than coyotes. There is a Coyote hunt every year here in Central PA and I did attend one a few years back with a hunter friend of mine that is a member of the club that sponsors it. Its a great time.

I can't speak to the quality of Pre 64 Model 70's compared to newer ones that were still made at the New Haven Plant. I know that the Pre 64 Winchester Model 94's were one of the best built lever rifles in its class at that time. When Winchester made changes to the Model 94 to cut costs, Winchester owners were not happy campers.

My Model 70 Classic was made in 2001 at the New Haven plant, it has a Pre 64 action. I absolutely love that rifle. Well built and very accurate. I had seen some Model 70 Supergrade rifles for sale, but not in a caliber I would want to buy. I already have a 300 WSM, and also bought a Remington 798 that was made in Serbia by Zastava. It's a 300 WM, has a Mauser K98 action. and is one sweet rifle. So if I were to buy another Model 70 in a Supergrade, I would probably buy a 308.

I am not surprised that gun owners are not trading in their older rifles. Even older Remington Model 700's were going for some high prices at estate auctions a couple years ago.

Cheers!


Mike T.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:32 pm
Back in my aviation days. When coming onto the final approach at any of our rural airports, it was wise to make a noisy low fly over to scare the Coyotes off the runway where they were laying in small groups.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:11 pm
I was impressed with Red Ryder's post! I am wondering what years those were with coyote popultations that high? Small Plane Pilots get to see things that many do not. Despite the fact that we are doing a lot of aerial photography in quite a few areas.....we are still not getting aerial images of coyotes. However thirthy years ago we were getting spectacular scenes of wolf packs in the Isle Royale area.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:22 pm
I should mention that the Isle Royale wolf populations today have dropped so low that it is alarming almost everyone. These Timber Wolves are quite a creature and it is fact that all domestic dogs come from this wolf......but coyotes are on the increase but wolves are a wilderness animal and do not get along well around many humans. Everyplace I know coyotes are on the increase. I also would note that there is NO ANIMAL I would be more motivated to hunt than wild pigs. They are increasing to a degree that is amazing and can have up to 9 liters a year. My Model 70s would get used to hunt them for sure. Farmers are having some very bad crop damage from these wild pigs. When the wild pigs are full grown they look pretty scary!
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:51 pm
DaveyJ, I have not flown since 2002. The Coyote population was not dense as I recall. They were attracted to the remote airports/airfields at night to cool down during the hot muggy Louisiana nights. They would began to gather in small packs at dusk and remain until near dawn. During the years from 1979 through 2002 I made night body runs from Houston and many night search and rescue sorties with the Civil Air Patrol. Most S&R sorties were at or near small rural airfields. These airfields we usually surrounded on all sides by forestry.
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:24 am
My pilot days are over. I no longer have govt planes to fly and I sold the plane I did have. Currently we do our aerial photography by unmanned quadcopters which are way better at accomplishing a specific mission than fixed wing aircraft of helicopters were in my experience. Quadcopter aerial Photography however is a pretty technical pursuit and the possibility of wrecking fairly expensive equipment is always there. Sometimes the coyotes here and other places I travel seem more robust than others but a lot of that is weather. Right now they are laying low and we might get frost tonight! Even in places we are photographing with sea planes like Dehav. Otters the quadcopters outperform the more expensive planes and helicopters are even more expensive. So in that sense it is a whole new world.

I am not even surprised we are not seeing coyotes from the air. They are very much survivors and it demonstrates how they can live around people and be increasing in numbers. I do have far greater "tolerance" for them. Wild hogs though is a "get your gun" situation if I have ever seen it. The habitat and crop damage is substantial and they reduce other populations like deer herds. My first choice in firearms for them is .243, same a coyotes. My son has shot some big coyotes with the S&W M22 rimfire. That would NOT work on wild hogs.

.410
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:39 am
Coyotes attack and kill fawns, and so do bears. We don't have quite the wild hog population of Hogs n Central PA than we have of varmits, and predators. Personally, I have no use for Coyotes. I am probably going to get a Varmit Tag to accompany my Hunting license this year, depending on how much time I am going to be able to spend in the field this year.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:27 am
No question Coyotes will attack and kill fawns if they are able to do so. The current wildlife biologists claim that bears kill more fawns than do coyotes. Seems pretty unlikely as there are MORE coyotes. I am no longer a working wildlife biologist. When I was one and particularly on dead deer surveys two things accounted for the most ADULT or large fawn deaths.....domestic dogs and vehicles on the road. Followed distantly by hunters. Coyotes are now taking a toll that hey did not before due to huge population increase. So y all means if you or MikeT or any other hunter has the inclination to hunt them they should not be discouraged. I unfortunately predict that many areas we now do not have wild hogs will see them become a great problem in the future. They are expanding from south to north at a rapid rate. partly due to climate change, and a lot of this is when a population of any creature gets numbers great enough to occupy a habitat they will then expand until disease, habitat change, harvest or some other factor begins to slow them down. We probably did not need coyotes or wild hogs in many areas. I believe though deer and elk, etc., are preferred species form most of us on Winchester Owners Forum!

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:40 am
To Miket1983 I am surprised you need a Varmit Tag in addition to a hunting license in Pa! Almost always I think Pa is run far better than NYS DC does here! Every sportsman I talk to says the same thing! However walk into a NYS DEC office and you would think you have asked to talk to God himself. The resource management professionals live in a bubble of self importance. Just came away from four sportsman's meeting in NY. That was the take of every single sportsman in those meetings. Some said, nice people, stinking awful policy. Also this state is going to get sued so hard for their anti-hydrofracking stance it will be unreal. Joe Martens of DEC has publicly stated that it will be almost impossible to write this ban so it will not become a suit target. For years Pa has had a whole different policy. So has most of the USA.

But a varmit tag should not be needed. If you are a farmer though I am certain such a tag is unneeded!

Having been a water quality scientist most of my life some of these trends are unbelievable. Science should dictate management practices. Varmits should be eliminated and we use to pay BOUNTIES to accomplish that until we found out that they were expensive and stimulated cheating, and plain weren't very effective. But when someone does it for sport or whatever reason for free.....it should not be discouraged!
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:55 am
You and I realize this Country is expanding exponentially. Wild life is also expanding. Expansion demands room. Therefore, wild life is forced, by man, to infringe on man's expansion for food, shelter and breeding. Man has little concern for fauna or flora when satisfying his need for more expansion.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:40 pm
Got that right Red Ryder! Although some populations of creatures requiring colder water or more space are dwindling. Red Ryder was always a hero of mine when I was growing up. But I lives on a two square mile farm and we had no TV, no comic books and listened to only a few radio shores when there were not farm chores to do. I did see wildlife then that I do not today unless I travel far more ground!

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:10 pm
Regarding your posts about the bear vs coyote/ fawn issue. I recently was at a program where a biologist for California Department of Fish and Wildlife did a study in Northern California which found 61% of fawn mortality was bear caused. This is, however,very young fawns. The other problem bears cause is they will take a lion kill which then causes the lion to kill again. Instead of 1 deer a week the lion will have to kill 2 . We have a rather large population of lions and bears on our property which is not really so good and we have to have a real good reason to kill a lion ie;brown stain in shorts.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:07 pm
DaveyJ, I still have my 1942 original Red Ryder BB gun. Had a link here to my website that listed all my collection of firearms, air guns, knives, etc.

There's a human interest story with the RR.

If there's interest I can upload the listing to the Internet again.
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.410
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:25 pm
bob lewis wrote:Regarding your posts about the bear vs coyote/ fawn issue. I recently was at a program where a biologist for California Department of Fish and Wildlife did a study in Northern California which found 61% of fawn mortality was bear caused. This is, however,very young fawns. The other problem bears cause is they will take a lion kill which then causes the lion to kill again. Instead of 1 deer a week the lion will have to kill 2 . We have a rather large population of lions and bears on our property which is not really so good and we have to have a real good reason to kill a lion ie;brown stain in shorts.


I'd guess that a fawn is easy prey for a bear. Coyotes would probably have to travel in packs to get a fawn away from its mother. A Bear could just as easily attack the mother as the fawn.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:16 am
I have been told it is strictly related to the bear's sense of smell being tuned in better to finding young fawns. I have been told by the very few biologists who are real field men that few adult deer get killed by either bear or coyotes as the deer at that age are just too fast. Having watched quite a few pursuits myself I think this is the case. Despite the fact that we have Black bear at this tree farm every month....there are just a lot more coyotes. I do think our deer herd is downsizing now.....Could be just more people (and the active hunters in any area are the MINORITY of human residents....At any rate I am certain I do not have as much a handle on wildlife populations on our two farms and surrounding areas as I would like to have. One of our farms is in the Adirondacks, and one in the Southern Tier. The coyote population in the Adirondack tree farm is MUCH larger than the Home Farm in the Southern Tier!

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:39 am
To Red Ryder: The Red Ryder BB Gun is the longest continuing licensing arrangement in the world! I never owned one. I did repeatedly ask for one but at our farm such purchases were not allowed. Too bad as they are worth a LOT (the antique ones). I believe I saw a NEW one at the Farm tractor Supply Store. I will look on my next trip to Plattsburgh NY. If they still have them I am going to buy one! THANKS to Red Ryder for this piece of history! I still have 2 Nichols Stallion .45 cap guns which sold for 3.95 in 1957 and today a mint one in the box will bring over $1,000!!! Red Ryder's original BB gun would EBay auction for a bundle. Also I'd better admit that I never actually was given any of these Nichol's cap guns I got them in trade for repair work, etc. with school mates.

Today I find it easier to just go out and buy a NEW Model 70 if I want one than it ever was to get one as a youth. However those still were the good old days......when there were a lot more wild places. In fact when I met Jack O'Connor in 1969 I felt he was one of the men who had actually seen wildlife that few will ever get to see. Now I can actually save up and buy a new Model 70, even a Jack O'Connor .270. But sadly my ability to get around is not as great as the old days. Yet now I can travel and visit some great places. Most of those kind of places though my "shooting" has to be with a camera though as some of these places hunting is prohibited or too expensive for me!

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:41 am
I am going to look up Red Ryder's list of gear.....I am fond of my gear but his is probably legend. I have more guns than I can ever use and sometimes I wonder what will become of them when I give them away or they are willed past tense....
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