End of a sorry story for my Jack O'Connor Winchester


.22LR
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:17 am
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:15 am
1.jpg
1.jpg (51.55 KiB) Viewed 13527 times
I won't go into all of the details on how I ended up at this point, you can look back at previous posts and see the trail. But here is where the trail shall end, for me anyway. The rifle came back after about 8 months for repairs on the stock. The metalwork was fixed very well, the barrel floats perfectly, the finish on the gun is above average and the checkering looks like it was done with a pocketknife by a drunk, in the dark. I've got pictures and I do hope to post them here. If not, I'll post them on the website I open up based on this experience. The tragedy for me is that I'll never be able to buy another Model 70, Model 94, Super X or any other Winchester/Browning related products without holding them in my hands first. Over the decades I have probably filled at least 3 of my safes via Gunbroker and other online auctions, but not anymore. This experience fixed that for me. If you want a quality gun, you better go find it. Never had any trouble with Weatherby or Kimber rifles online and all the Browning shotguns I have purchased have served me well, but that was then and this is now. I'll take no more chances. The gun doesn't look horrible to the point that you couldn't hunt with it, I just can't. I'll hate it everytime I look at it and think of all the hassle I went through and all the money I spent on something that is of inferior quality to a standard M70 being produced right now (at least I hope it is). Don't think I'll ever shoot it. I'll just hold it till someone buys it, and we all know someone eventually will. The only question is how much will I lose in all of this? Never again. After 2500$ and nearly 8 months later that is what I have. I just can't believe it, I really can't believe it. It's like some kind of dream where Winchester is going to pop out and go "you've been had! Here's your real Model 70" and thanks for all the business over the years.
Attachments
3.jpg
3.jpg (67.25 KiB) Viewed 13527 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (50.28 KiB) Viewed 13527 times
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:09 pm
The caveat "Buyer Beware" comes to mind...
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:18 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:43 am
Looks like the same outfit that messed up the lettering on your gun case might have been involved with a checkering file. That is a gross looking job on the forestalk, I can see why you are unhappy. The memory of JOC hasn't been honoured with this one IMO.

.270 WIN
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:20 am
I believe I have seen as many of the Jack O'Connor rifles as most customers. I have yet to personally see ONE that my friend Jack O'Connor would not be proud of. For what they cost they are amazing. This rifle seems to be a very glaring exception. One problem here is that the Tribute and Custom Tribute rifles are hand checkered.

I have a personal history with LARGE volume hand wood carving which NOW is all done by machine laser checkering and it is done very well. Hand checkering is more fashionable and supported than I can even believe.

This exact rifle pictured is one sad case (and seems to be very isolated) bad hand checkering. It looks like one of my earlier attempts on trail stocks when I first started hand checkering now. Alvin Linden did several books on custom rifle stock making including beautiful illustrations of hand checkering. Alvin Biesen did the custom Jack O'Connor #2 .270 Winchester model 70 and his son Roger did the prototype stocking for the Jack O'Connor Custom Tribute "copies" of this rifle for Winchester's Shot Show Special with Glenn Hatt working with the Jack O'Connor Center. The quality control was very well done with both Tribute Model 70s and the Custom Tribute.

I believe this one slipped through the QC element. It would unfortunately be pretty hard to correct now.
One would think Winchester would take the rifle back and put a new stock on it. Unfortunately NO replacement stocks were set aside according to my sources. One thought I have is that some prospective buyers would not be that turned off by this sloppy hand checkering. It is also pretty much bad in only an area and not the whole piece. Since hand checkering in field use (I DON"T BUY RIFLES TO PUT IN SAFES) can be beat up a little and still look better than the way better than average production rifle I think this is just a again isolated case of THIS rifle coming to the wrong customer.
I do know of ONE single Custom Tribute rifle still for sale. I may buy that rifle myself so I am reluctant to provide too many details.

Apparently Winchester made the executive decision to let that serious complaint just go. Again there is pretty much none left in inventory to fix this. I would keep it and use it. I have ONE Model 70 that I used to be critical of. It was a very special run. I just didn't like a few features. Then after using it in the field HARD I began to gain great affection for the rifle. I used it on and off with a durable stainless steel Model 70 and the wood stocked rifle beat it in every way. Now it is my SINGLE favorite rifle!!

.270 WIN
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:35 am
It would be nice to see some overall photos of this rifle. My guess is that this rifle is worth WAY more than an "average" limited production run rifle. From the very little I can see of the wood it is very nice except for checkering and even that is isolated. I do completely agree with the owner's conclusion that he wouldn't want to buy another MODEL 70 without holding it in his hands. Problem is most dealers hardly have an inventory of Model 70s. Fact is all of the limited edition Model 70s have to be pre-ordered before they are made. Then what do you do if your maker had a crop failure or something slipped through QC.
I would contact Mike Butler of the Jack O'Connor center and see if he has any suggestions.

Copper BB
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:04 pm
Location: panama city, Fl
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:43 pm
sorry for that, I noticed the checkering and first thought was "damn, shitty job" but I did not want to post that until you verified it. best of luck to you.

.22LR
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:39 pm
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:46 am
That is a shame. I know you have had a long road with this rifle. I would certainly NOT be happy with that checkering at all. I know it doesn't help the situation but you do seem to be the exception to this JOC rifle and that sucks. I just had my JOC rifle to the range this week and it still is punching one hole groups at 100 yards. Perhaps you should see how your rifle shoots. If it turns out to be a tack driver as mine is, you may decide to use it. My JOC rifle is still in perfect condition and decided to remove my VX6 and put a VX3 2.5-10 on it for a more traditional look and only use it for range shooting instead of hunting. I just don't want to risk damage to the JOC and I have so many other fine Winchester and Kimbers to use that could be replaced if damaged. As mentioned above, the stock on the JOC is irreplaceable at this point.

If you are totally disgusted with the rifle, I would sell it on GB and you will get a good portion of your money back and move on. BUT...If you are curious to see if it is a tack driver and it turns out to be a great shooter, it may become your favorite and most handsome hunting rifle with some of the pressure removed with keeping it collectors grade perfect.


Had the JOC shooting 4 shot groups like these at the range this week. I also had my "user/hunting" 1986 M70 XTR 270 shooting almost as good.
Image

Image


Image

Image

Copper BB
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:04 pm
Location: panama city, Fl
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:35 pm
I agree with mystro, if it's a one hole grouper I'd keep it and live with the disfigurement.

.410
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:49 am
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:01 pm
I own one of these rifles. Best workmanship I ever saw on a limited edition rifle! This one he had is a rare rifle.Looks like this is on old thread. I usually am on Browning Forum.

.410
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:36 pm
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:11 am
Al Biesen stocked many of Jack's rifles in Spokane Washington
They are still in business last I heard although it's his kids doing the work
Jack use to dream of a Dr Russel c Smith Winchester but to my knowledge he never owned one

.410
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:49 am
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:02 pm
Al Biesens son Roger is In his late nineties! He is a great gun maker! He is not though a kid! I am not sure he is taking anymore work.His website says he is officially retired.

.410
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:49 am
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:29 pm
My Jack O Connor 270 Tribute Rifle is splendid and sure can hold extremely tight groups. I have never hunted with it. Many dealers or gun salesmen have never even seen one. They are a darker finish than Jacks No. 2 rifle this was based on. There are a lot more embellishments on the Custom Tribute and the Tribute rifle. The Custom Model has a Steel butt plate as did Jacks rifles. I kind of think the checking is machine layering, not handcut. I know all of my other limited edition Model 70s have machine cut laser checkering which is about perfect.

Return to Winchester Model 70

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Winchester Owners Forum is privately owned and operated. It is not affiliated or operated by Winchester company. Views and opinions expressed here are not necessarily that of Winchester.